It was fantastic to see the huge amount of thought-provoking questions for our panel at our ARUK24 workshop, ‘Tackling gender gaps in dementia research’. We were not able to address all of your questions on the day, however, we have reached out to our panellists, as well as other WiNUK members, to answer the questions that we missed.
Can you comment on the pressure to move around? I have been told that staying in the same place is a career killer, but I have family commitments so cannot move.
One of the questions posed to our panellists revolved around the pressure to relocate for career advancement. Fiona shared her perspective, saying, "I personally did not feel any pressure to move, but I did move a lot for exciting opportunities. I think there are pros and cons to moving or staying. I think the best thing is to focus on your goals and try to avoid making comparisons to others. Take (or chase) the opportunities that excite you and motivate you to get up in the morning and work hard. Your success is driven by your output and your growing experience, which you can apply to your role as it expands, and that doesn’t rely directly on location but is a combination of effort, hard work, commitment, grit, riding the wave, soaking up broad learnings and some luck."
Kam reflected on her experience of feeling pressured to relocate in order to achieve academic independence. She recounted, "Ten years ago, I was coming to the end of my PhD and I applied for a fellowship to be able to stay in the department where I was working. When my application was rejected, one of the reasons given was that I wasn’t moving to another lab. I was warned that it could happen, but it just didn’t seem rational to me. I felt like if I had everything set up to make the project a success, and I had a support network already established to enable me to be successful, why should I have to move to a place where things might be done differently and I wouldn’t know anyone?" Kam continued, "The rationale was that I wouldn’t be able to establish independence whilst still working closely with my PhD supervisor, and I ended up moving to three different cities in the UK with successive postdoc positions. This wouldn’t have been possible if I had financial or family commitments, and I would have had to leave academia through circumstance rather than choice.”
However, she has noticed some improvements in this area. She explained, “I don’t think that the pressure to move is as prevalent as it was 10 years ago, as I see more and more ECRs (early career researchers) staying for postdocs and fellowships in the same institution where they have done their PhDs. So I think we are seeing positive changes in attitude regarding this."
Maternity/caring responsibilities are a big barrier, but what about women-specific illnesses such as endometriosis, which can severely impact the ability to work?
Fiona highlighted the diverse challenges individuals face in their careers and the need for systemic improvements to create a more inclusive environment. Fiona emphasised, "We all face different challenges at different times. Chronic illnesses are really tough and probably require individual considerations within the context of the role. By increasing awareness of each of our individual challenges, we can work to improve the systemic infrastructure to support us and our needs and create a more inclusive environment."
She further stressed the importance of focusing on personal goals and seeking support, saying, "I think you have to focus on what you can do and who can support you in achieving your goals, and also support others with theirs." We resonate with Fiona's insights, calling for a heightened awareness of individual circumstances and a collective compassionate effort to address these obstacles effectively to help even the playing field on wellbeing and productivity in research.
What do you think of women in senior roles who display internalised misogyny? How can we stop ECRs from thinking that to succeed they need to be the same?
When asked about the issue of internalised misogyny among women in senior roles, Fiona offered a nuanced perspective. Fiona cautioned against stereotyping specific styles, acknowledging that responses can be influenced by various factors and may not always reflect intentional bias, but that does not mean it never happens. ‘’We have all experienced examples of direct or indirect misogynistic, or other unacceptable, behaviour and I personally find it easier to have a strategy to try to manage it and focus on outcomes rather than let it get to me, but that isn’t always easy’’. She explained, "I think we have to be aware that every individual has a different style and any stereotyping of specific styles can be unproductive, as a response that seems one way could be situational or unintentional, or misinterpreted."
“We are all human and get it wrong sometimes and we have to look after each other through good and bad and also let some things go.” Professor Fiona Ducotterd
She highlighted the importance of focusing on your personal response to behaviour rather than necessarily overthinking the behaviour itself, emphasising the need to focus on what one can control. Fiona shared, "A mentor gave me some very good advice: that you can only control yourself and how you respond in situations and you have to focus your energy on the things you can control, which can include how you respond to someone else’s behaviour."
Additionally, Fiona stated, "I try to focus on assuming good intent and leading by example, treating others as I would like to be treated, with the goal of creating a work culture where we support each other and lift each other up where we are able."
At WiNUK, we believe that addressing misogynistic behaviours from people of all genders is important for fostering an inclusive and supportive work environment. Internalised misogyny is defined as sexist behaviour towards women by women, which can include mistrusting themselves and other women, and showing gender bias in favour of men. To prevent early career researchers (ECRs) from adopting similar behaviours, it is essential to promote awareness and education about the impacts of misogyny on women. We recommend mentorship and training offerings that emphasise empathy, respect, and collaboration to help ECRs develop healthier leadership styles. Additionally, organisations should implement policies that encourage feedback and open dialogue about workplace behaviours, ensuring that all voices are heard and valued. By creating a culture of mutual support and understanding, we can help neuroscientists to realise that success does not require perpetuation of negative behaviours, and it instead can come from inclusive practices.
Do you think that a lot of the differences between women at student and group leader level could be due to historical bias against women, rather than current bias?
Despite the relatively equal percentage of female and male undergraduates in STEM, and more females successfully completing their degrees, just 25% of professors are female (Joyce et al., 2024). When asked whether the differences between women at the student and group leader levels could be attributed more to historical bias than current bias, Fiona reflected on the interplay of both factors. She stated, "There is a lot of research confirming that there are specific barriers we experience as women. I do think bias is still playing a big role and most women in leadership I talk to have had to take a lot on their shoulders on their way up. Behaviours like assertiveness, taking balanced risks, or being ambitious/hungry can be viewed negatively in women, whereas a man would be viewed positively for the same trait.” Additionally, Fiona shared, "The more responsibility and decision-making I’ve had in my roles, the more I have experienced stereotypes I thought were only in textbooks on historical biases, but I do think this is changing as we have more awareness and also more diverse teams generally sitting with us in the room."
She also pointed out that biases extend beyond the workplace, adding, "The biases can be at home as well as work, such as the judging comments we receive when we travel for business, that our male counterparts do not experience so much."
Women continue to experience systemic challenges which can include insufficient funding, lack of female role models and visibility, harassment and, often, a greater workload at home. Despite this, Fiona did highlight the positive shift that is taking place, with more women now entering higher positions, indicating progress toward reducing these biases.
How do you answer people that are surprised by these statistics and say they do not see any problem for women in neuroscience?
When asked how she responds to individuals surprised by statistics indicating gender disparities in neuroscience, Fiona shared her initial reaction of speechlessness. She elaborated, "What can you say other than point out that they may actually sit at the root of the problem? A lot of people say this as they are lucky to be completely naïve, or don’t want to address their own biases or admit there is any problem. Until someone has walked in your shoes, it is hard sometimes to see. I remember the first time someone did a very stereotypical behaviour in a meeting—I was floored as I thought those days were gone, but sadly, as I’ve become more senior in my roles, I have experienced it more. But we are going to change it!"
Kam suggested a direct approach to addressing scepticism about gender disparities, emphasising the importance of acknowledging and analysing data. Kam indicated that individuals who disregard data to fit their biases may undermine the scientific process: “I would suggest that if they took the same approach and ignored data within their scientific field to fit their biases, they really shouldn’t be doing science.” This highlights the need to acknowledge statistics, even if we do not like what they say.
Have you asked women about their reason for leaving science?
When asked if she had inquired about women's reasons for leaving science, Fiona shared, "Yes – many leave as they want to do different things. Others leave due to a personal experience at work, or to go to new opportunities that fit their interests or home lives better. There isn’t a single reason normally." Fiona emphasised the diverse factors influencing individual decisions, noting that the absence of a singular reason underscores the variety of personal and professional motivations. A key reason appears to be personal experience at work, which can include instances of gender bias and sexism, but this is often part of a diverse range of factors.
Many of you are talking about alliance building. Have experiences of gender disparities fed into how you approach partnership and influencing?
Fiona provided insights into how gender disparities have shaped her approach to partnership and influencing strategies. She explained, "Sometimes you need to prepare for a meeting by getting some of the stakeholders on your side in advance to avoid surprises. If you aren’t being heard, it can be good to work with another colleague who makes sure your voice is amplified in meetings, for example."
Despite the challenges, Fiona highlighted her focus on future interactions and learning from past experiences, adding, "Generally, I try not to focus on gender or other characteristics. If I have a bad interaction, I try to let it go and focus on the outcomes I need to achieve and the future. I also try to look back and evaluate whether I might have handled the situation differently if it happened again, so I can ensure I capture the learnings."
All three of you have specifically mentioned a man who has championed you and your career. What can we do as men to be those champions?
When asked about how men can champion women in science, Fiona emphasised the importance of equitable treatment and support in overcoming imposter syndrome. She stated, "Treat us equitably and help us overcome any doubts quickly. We all experience the occasional but debilitating bout of imposter syndrome, which is hard to avoid, and we need to be reminded we can do it in that moment. Most champions help us to see our best selves. I’m so lucky to have had many great and diverse mentors in my career, and from broad perspectives in science and other industries."
Kam highlighted that gender bias affects everyone, not just women, and urged men to actively mentor female early career researchers (ECRs). She explained, "Gender bias is not a woman’s issue, it’s everyone’s issue because we’re all diminished if we lose good neuroscientists due to the challenges women continue to face. I would encourage men to be good mentors by ensuring they provide support for female ECRs. For example, suggest conferences they can go to and present at, advise them on how to get published, have early discussions about the next steps in their career, and share your network with them. They should show as much interest in their ECRs' career development as they do in the data they are generating for the lab. Reflecting on her own experiences with male mentors, Kam underscored the necessity for all PIs to prioritise mentorship in supporting women in science. She shared, "All my PIs have been men and have provided me with mentorship throughout my career. These are things PIs should be doing anyway, but through my work with ECRs, I’m consistently finding they’re not." Kam's insights emphasise the practical steps men can take to champion women and the ongoing need for dedicated mentorship in academia.
“Gender bias is not a woman’s issue, it’s everyone’s issue” Dr Kamar Ameen Ali
The insights shared by Fiona and Kam shed light on the importance of addressing gender disparities and fostering inclusivity in the scientific community. Their perspectives underscore the need for collective action to support women in science and create equitable opportunities for all researchers. By championing diversity, promoting mentorship, and advocating for systemic change, we can work towards a future where every individual, regardless of gender, has an equal opportunity to thrive and contribute to scientific progress.
This article was written by Rebecca Parker and edited by Rebecca Pope and Lizzie English, with graphics produced by Lilly Green. If you enjoyed this article, be the first to be notified about new posts by signing up to become a WiNUK member (top right of this page)! Interested in writing for WiNUK yourself? Contact us through the blog page and the editors will be in touch.
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